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Forza/General Tuning Thread For Turn10

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Post  Xtreme_Skills Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:27 am

Turn10 have asked me to do a decent write-up of the basics of tuning so that a novice would understand. I'd be grateful if some of you could read through it and tell me what bits need editing Smile

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In-case you don’t know, telemetry can be found by pressing up/down on the D-pad while driving, but do at least 3 laps on a medium sized track with an even amount of left and right corners to get everything up to temperature before you start tuning.
Tyres
Aim to keep pressures between 30 and 34psi when hot to keep the contact patch of the tyre big. The optimum contact patch and therefore amount of friction is at 32psi but temperatures are more important than contact patch in cars. Increasing pressure decreases temperature and contact patch whereas decreasing pressure does the opposite. Optimum temperature is around 195°F so aim for that without going too far out of the recommended pressure window.
On tracks with long straights it can be an advantage to run higher pressures to decrease rolling resistance. This is why you see quick people running 55psi (maximum pressure). However, I only recommended running extremely high pressures in the rear on FWD and AWD cars as the grip level will probably decrease significantly if you do otherwise.
Gearing
First of all, you need to find out at what revs your car produces its maximum power. To do this, you can either look at the specifications in-garage, or watch the telemetry.
What I would now do is setup the final drive so that the cars maximum speed is about 750rpm above where the max power is.
The next step is to individually set the gear ratios (if you are tuning a car for a specific track). If you need to change gear just before a corner then it can be an advantage to lengthen the previous gear. You should also shorten a gear if the car doesn’t rev enough and reach it’s optimum power output.
When to Shift
I often talk about this with people who disagree with me but over-revving a car can have a disadvantage.
What you want to do is shift so that the power the engine is outputting is matched when the next gear is selected.
E.g. On the telemetry, it’s stating that the engine is out-putting 180hp in 3rd gear. When you shift to 4th, you want the hp to remain at 180. Doing this will squeeze every last bit of power out of your engine, and it does make a significant difference especially in certain cars. I know this because I’ve been even with ghosts and when it comes to shifting, I pass it.
If you can understand this then you’ll be at an advantage, almost no-one realises it including the ‘elites’.
Alignment:
Camber: You need to set this up for even temperatures across your tyres. If the inside of your tyres are cooler than the outside, increase camber, and if it’s hotter, decrease (*use telemetry).
Toe: Avoid using any more than +/-0.2 as it will affect your speed significantly.
You will rarely want to use any on the front, occasionally 0.1 for tracks like Nurburgring GP when cars never want to turn-in.
I often use -0.2 on the rear to keep the rear of a car stable through a chicane.
Personally, I never use any negative toe on the front or positive on the rear as I don’t think there’s a benefit, but it’s down to preference. Positive toe will make one end of the car turn-in faster/more responsive whereas negative toe will make it more stable and less responsive. Positive toe can also be used to help eliminate understeer and negative for curing oversteer on the rear.
Caster: I almost always use maximum a although this will make the car extremely responsive, it gives more grip under braking and acceleration. It keeps the tyres more vertical/the contact patch bigger by allowing you to run less camber. Decrease this if you cannot get the camber set-up evenly or you find the car too responsive.
It also allows the car to ride more smoothly over bumps as the suspension is angled towards them.
Anti-Roll Bars
*Always set-up springs before anti-roll bars
As a car goes round a corner, the body rolls. For instance, in a right-hand turn, the car will roll left and put the majority of its weight on the outside tyres. The front and rear anti-roll bars are used to adjust how much load each tyre takes. The softer a roll-bar, the more load it will allow and the stiffer a roll-bar, the more it will resist. This is how you balance a car.
If you want more grip at the front, you would soften the front/stiffen the rear, and if you want more grip at the rear, you would soften the rear/stiffen the front.
I usually put the rear on maximum and keep increasing the front in 2.50 increments until the rear stops sliding.
(If you reach more than 30:00 on the front and the car is still sliding then you will need to decrease the rear. This is because the front of the car will become too stiff and not allow enough load to transfer onto the outside tyre, causing understeer. If you do reach 30:00/40:00 then I recommend resetting to 20:00/20:00 and adjusting evenly from there e.g. 22:50/17:50, 25:00/15:00 etc...)
The stiffer a roll-bar/car is, the more stable it will be, especially on turn-in and through chicanes.
Springs
The same roll stiffness rule applies for springs as it does roll-bars, but springs also work under braking and acceleration so they need to be set differently according to the statistics of the car.
The/my calculation: ‘Car weight’ + ‘down-force at front/rear’) / 100 * ‘weight % at front/rear’ / ‘ride height at front/rear’ * ‘g-force’
( / = divide, * = multiply)
‘G-force’ is found by attempting to install a new part)
An example: (2240 + 100) / 100 * 55 / 4.5 * 1.2 = 343.2lb
* You will need to do this for the front AND rear
Ride height: Always use minimum because it lowers the centre of gravity, therefore increasing stability. If the car bottoms-out and you lose control over a bump then increase it by 0.5 front and rear until it doesn’t. If you reach maximum and it still does it then increase the damping bump stiffness by 0.5 front and rear until it stops.
Damping
Bump: The ‘bump’ setting on a damper is how much it compresses. It does this when entering a corner and going over a bump. The softer it is, the more the damper will compress and the more load it will accept, therefore increasing grip. The stiffer it is, the less it will compress and the less load it will accept however, it will increase stability. I usually set this at minimum as tuning the anti-roll bars has almost the same effect.
Rebound: The ‘rebound’ setting on a damper is how much it will extend ‘the second time’. The softer it is, the more bouncy the ride, and the stiffer it is, the more stable it will be however, if it’s too stiff the car will become ‘jerky’ and you may experience sudden changes is its handling. This is why I usually leave it standard.
Aero
Always attempt to get away with as little down-force as possible as it will give you more top speed.
In low-powered FWD cars that don’t wheel spin at corner-exit, minimum front downforce is best however, for cars with a lot of power that do wheelspin, max is best to improve speed off a corner/how fast you can take it. This is usually for cars with upgraded tyres. You can usually get away with no rear downforce.
The same applies to AWD as FWD however, rear downforce may be required in high-powered cars to stop it sliding, especially on corner-exit. Always use as little as possible.
For RWD, I either run no downforce front and rear or max front and rear because otherwise the car usually becomes quite unstable. If you can get away with less rear downforce than the front without it sliding then it will be for the best.
Braking
Balance: Good starting points;
Front-Engined, Front-Wheel-Drive: 68%
Front-Engined, All-Wheel-Drive: 65%
Front-Engined, Rear-Wheel-Drive: 62%
Mid-Engined, All-Wheel-Drive: 59%
Mid-Engined, Rear-Wheel-Drive: 56%
Rear-Engined, All-Wheel-Drive: 53%
Rear-Engined, Rear-Wheel-Drive: 50%
If a car doesn’t have enough front grip on turn-in then put the balance more towards the rear as it will give the front tyres less to do however, if you go too far towards the rear (beyond 40% front) then the footbrake may begin to feel more like a handbrake. If this happens then put it back more towards the front.
Differential
*Diff-Lock: When each wheel rotates at the same speed. 100% = diff-lock.
Acceleration/Deceleration: How sensitive the differential is to lock.
The closer you are to diff-lock, the more stable the car, but the more understeer you will experience.
Good starting points;
FWD: 33%/0%
RWD: 50%/25%
AWD: 33%/0% 50%/50% 67%
No deceleration is usually needed for FWD and AWD as the cars are naturally stable under braking however, if the rear tries to break-away while braking, then you can increase this setting. This is very unusual.
I also recommend never putting the rear deceleration on AWD cars below about 50% as the rear inside tyre will slip during tight corners and overheat it/waste valuable grip.
Torque Split: The percentage of how much torque goes to each end of the car. This has a big effect on the handling under braking and on corner-exit.
The best setting for the torque split on AWD cars is as high as possible. It will give you more front-end grip as it will give the tyres less to do. The car will handle more like RWD.
The higher it is, the less stability you will have when engine-braking. I usually start at 80% then work down in 5% increments until the car is stable while braking and on corner-exit. It’s mainly down to handling preference and how you down-shift, ‘heel-and-toe’ can be very beneficial on RWD and AWD cars.
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Last edited by Xtreme_Skills on Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:15 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post  Conman_Skills Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:04 pm

Good stuff, beats the crap out of the tuning guide I put together back in the FM2 days for R2P. But if you're looking for good feedback talk to VoodooUomo or whatever his tag is. I don't know if you know the guy but drop an old R2P member said you'd be the guy to ask and he'll give you whatever feedback might be helpful or necessary. He's with T10(lol T10 forced him to leave R2P when he got the job) so he understands the quality of work they expect. He has read tons of books and guides getting into the nitty gritty stuff when it comes to tuning a race car; Hes got a wealth of knowledge and would be all about this tuning guide. With that said I would not be surprised if he's the guy at T10 that asked you to do a write up...

Anyways, good stuff; it's hard to articulate what certain things do to a race car and why they make it perform in a certain way and you've done a damn good work.

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Post  Xtreme_Skills Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:54 pm

Was PHred. I'll try + speak to Voodo...

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Post  Mau5_Skills Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:15 pm

Looks sweet, but their needs to be a shout out to me in their. Very Happy

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Post  Supra_Skills Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:24 pm

Mau5_Skills wrote:Looks sweet, but their needs to be a shout out to me in their. Very Happy
LOL

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Post  Supra_Skills Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Look's good to me. I say go with it.

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